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0:00hey this is nivi you're listening to the navall podcast this is one giant mega sowed that collects every episode we've done on getting rich all of it based on his tweet storm of how to get rich without getting lucky I've collected them all here because we're going to

0:16switch topics to the new topic of happiness on the next episode we've published one of these giant mega subs before but this one's even bigger it's about three and a half hours long it covers all the tweets from the how to get rich tweet storm plus all the Q&A

0:32that we did after that plus ten minutes of bonus material at the very end that we've never released the overall sound quality of this mega sowed improves a lot after the first hour you can find a link to a clean transcript in the show

0:48notes or if you go to the website nav al there's no calm at the end I hope you enjoy you probably know Nepal from his Twitter account and we're gonna be talking about his epic tweet storm on how to get rich without getting lucky

1:05we're going to go through most of the tweets in detail giving the ball a chance to expand on them and just generally riff on the topic he'll probably throw in some ideas that he hasn't even published before he's also the co-founder of angel lists and opinions he's a prolific tech investor

1:21in companies like Twitter uber and many more and I'm the co-founder evangelist navall and I also co-authored the venture hacks blog with him back in the day yeah me how to get Mitch tweet storm definitely hit a nerve a lot of people say it was helpful reach across aisles

1:37and people outside of tech industry people in all walks of life people do want to know how to solve their money problems and everyone vaguely knows that they want to be wealthy but they don't have a good set of principles to do it by what's the difference between wealth

1:52money and status wealth is the thing that you really want wealth is assets that earn while you sleep wealth is the factory that with the robots as cranking out things wealth is the computer program that's running at night that's serving other customers wealth is even

2:09money in the bank that is being reinvested into other ass and into other businesses even a house can be a form of wealth because you can rent it out although it's probably a lower use of productivity but land and actually doing some commercial enterprise so my definition of wealth is

2:25much more businesses and assets that can earn while you sleep but really the reason you want wealth is because it buys you freedom so you don't have to wear a tire like a collar around your neck so you don't have to wake up at 7 a.m. and rush to work and sit and commute traffic so you don't have to waste away your entire life grinding all the

2:42productive hours into a way into a soulless job that doesn't fulfill you so the purpose of wealth is freedom it's nothing more than that it's like to buy fur coats or drive Ferraris or sail yachts or jet around the world in your Gulfstream that stuff gets really boring and really stupid really fast it's really just so that you are your

2:59own sovereign individual you're not gonna get that unless you really want it and the entire world wants it and the entire world is working hard at it and to some extent it is competitive it's a positive sum game but there are competitive elements to it because there's a finite amount of resources

3:14right now in society and to get the resources to do what you want you have to stand out money is how we transfer wealth money is social credits it is the ability to have credits and debits on other people's time if I do my job right

3:30if I create value for society Society says oh thank you we owe you something in the future for the work that you did in the past here's a little IOU let's call that money and that money gets the base because people steal the IOUs the government prints extra io u--'s people

3:47Rometsch under io u--'s but really what money is trying to be it is trying to be a reliable Iowa you from society that you are owed something for something you or someone who gave you that money did in the past and we can transfer these IOUs around so really money is how we transfer well there are fundamentally

4:04two huge games in life that people play one is the money game because money's not gonna solve all your problems but it's gonna solve all your money problems so I think that people know that they realize that so they want to make money but at the same time many of them deep down believe that they can't make it

4:19they don't want any wealth creation to happen so this virtue signal by attacking the whole enterprise by saying well making money is evil do it bottle blah but what they're trying to do is they're actually playing the other game to the status game they're trying to be high status in the

4:34eyes of other people watching by saying oh I don't need money we don't want money and then status is just your ranking in the social hierarchy so wealth is not a zero-sum game everybody in the world can have a house because you have a house doesn't take away from my ability to have a house if anything

4:50the more houses that are built the easier it becomes to build houses the more we know about building houses and just the more people that can have houses so wealth is a very positive sum game we create things together we're starting this endeavor to create this hopefully piece of art that explains

5:06what we're doing at the end of it something brand-new will be create it's a positive sub-game status on the other hand is a zero-sum game it's a very old game we've been playing it since monkey tribes and it's hierarchical who's number one who's number two who's number three and for a number three to move to number two

5:21number two has to move out of that slot so status is zero-sum game politics is an example of a status game even sports is an example of a status game to be the winner there must be a loser I don't fundamentally love status games they play an important role in our society so we figure out who's in charge

5:37but fundamentally you play them because they're necessary evil the problem is an evolutionary basis like if you go back thousands of years status is a much better predictor of survival than wealth as you couldn't have wealth before the farming age before farmers because you

5:52couldn't store things hunter-gatherers carried everything on their backs so hunter-gatherers lived entirely in status based societies farmers started going to wealth based societies and the modern industrial economies are much more heavily wealth based societies but there's always a subtle competition going on between status and wealth for

6:09example when journalists attack rich people or they attack the technology industry they're really bidding for status they're saying no the people are more important and I the journalist represents the people and therefore I am more important the problem is that by playing these status games to win at a

6:25status game you have to put somebody else down that's why you should avoid status games in your life because they make you into an angry combative person you're always fighting to put other people down to put yourself and the people that you like up and they're always going to exist

6:41no way around it but just realize that most of the times when you're trying to create wealth you're actually getting attacked by someone else and they're trying to look like a goody two-shoes but really what they're doing is they're trying to up their own status at your expense they're just playing a different game and it's a worse game it's a

6:57zero-sum game instead of a positive sum game one thing you mentioned before the interview that stuck with me was the idea that you think everyone can become rich and that perhaps some of the ways of getting rich or the idea of wealth is

7:13vilified by some people in other countries say you want to expand on that a little bit yeah I think there's this notion that making money is evil right it's like rooted all the way back down to money's the root of all evil people think that bankers steal our money and

7:29you know it's somewhat true in that in a lot of the world there's a lot of theft going on all the time the history of the world in some sense is this predator-prey relationship between makers and takers there are people who go out and create things and build things and work hard on things and then

7:45they're people who come along and play with a sword or a gun or taxes or crony capitalism or communism or what-have-you there's all these different methods to steal even in nature there are more parasites than there are non parasitical organisms you have ton of parasites in you who are living off of you and the

8:01better ones are symbiotic they're giving something back but there are a lot that are just taking that's just the nature of how any complex system is built but what I am focused on is true wealth creation it's not about taking money it's not about taking something from somebody else but it's when creating

8:16abundance obviously there's not a finite number of jobs or a finite amount of wealth otherwise we will still be sitting around in caves figuring out how to divide a pieces of firewood and you know the occasional dead deer so most of the wealth and civilization in fact not most all of it has been created and it

8:32got created from somewhere it got created from people they got created from technology a critical productivity got created from hard work so this idea that if stolen is I think this horrible zero-sum game that people who are trying to gain status play but the reality is

8:47everyone can be rich and we can see that by seeing that in the first world everyone is richer than almost anyone who was alive too hundred years ago 200 years ago nobody had any biotics nobody had cars nobody had electricity nobody had the iPhone so

9:02all of these things are inventions that have made us wealthier as a species today I would rather be a poor person in the first world country than be a rich person in Louisa 14th France I'd rather be a poor person today than an aristocrat back then and that's just

9:17because of wealth creation the engine of technologies science that is applied for the purpose of creating abundance so I think fundamentally everybody can be wealthy and the thought experiment I want you to think through is imagine if everybody had the knowledge of a good

9:33software engineer and a good hardware engineer if you could go out there and you could build robots and computers and bridges and program them let's say every human knew how to do that what do you think society would look like in 20 years my guess is what would happen is

9:48we would build robots machines software and hardware to do everything and we would all be living in massive abundance we would essentially be retired in the sense that none of us would have to work for any of the basics we'd even have robotic nurses we have like machine driven hospitals we have self-driving

10:05cars we'd have farms that are a hundred percent automated we have clean energy so at that point we could use technology breakthroughs to get everything that we want it and if anyone is still working at that point they're working as a form of expressing their creativity they're

10:21working because it's in them to contribute and to build a design things but I don't think capitalism is evil capitalism is actually good it's just that it gets hijacked it gets hijacked by improper pricing of xq-- maladies it gets hijacked by improper deals where

10:37that you have corruption or you have monopolies over all capitalism is intrinsic to the human species capitalism is not something we invented capitalism is not even something we discovered it is innate to us in every exchange that we have when you and I exchange information I want some

10:54information back from you I give you information you give me information if we weren't having a good information exchange you go talk to somebody else so the notion of exchange and keeping track of credits and debits this is built into us as flexible social animals we are the only animal in the animal kingdom that cooperate

11:10across genetic boundaries most animals doesn't cooperate but when they do they cooperate only in packs where they Co evolved together and they share blood so they have some shared interests humans don't have that and what lets us cooperate it's because we can keep track of debits and credits who put in how

11:26much work who contributed how much that's all free market capitalism is so I strongly believe that it is innate to the human species and we are going to create more and more wealth and abundance for everybody everybody can be wealthy everybody can be retired

11:43everybody can be successful it is merely a question of Education and desire you have to want it if you don't want it that's fine then you opt out of the game but don't try and put down the people who are playing the game because that's the game that keeps you in a comfortable warm bed at night that's the game that

11:59keeps a roof over your head that's a game that keeps your supermarket's stock that's the game that keeps the iphone buzzing in your pocket so it is a beautiful game that is worth playing ethically rationally morally socially for the human race and it's gonna continue to make us all richer and richer until we have massive wealth

12:16creation for anybody who wants it and it's not just individual secretly despising wealth right there's countries groups political parties that overtly despise wealth or at least seem to that's right and so what those countries

12:31political parties and groups are reduced playing the zero-sum king of status and the process to destroy wealth creation they dragged everybody down to their level which is why the u.s. is a very popular country for immigrants because it's the American dream anyone can come here pretty poor and then work really hard

12:46and make money and get wealthy but even just make some basic money for their lives obviously the definition of wealth is different for different people a first of all citizens definition of wealth might be oh I have to make millions of dollars and I'm completely done where's to a third-world poor immigrant just entering the country and we were poor

13:02immigrants who came here when I was fairly young to the United States wealth may just be a much lower number it may just be that I don't have to work a manual labor job for the rest of my life that I don't want work but groups that despise it will essentially bring the entire group down to that level if you

13:17get too many takers and not enough makers society falls apart you're in with a communist country look with Venezuela right they were so busy taking and dividing and reallocating that people are literally starving in the streets and losing kilograms of body weight every year just do sheer starvation another way think about it

13:34imagine an organism that has too many parasites you actually need some small number of parasites to stay healthy and you need a lot of symbols like all the mitochondria in all of our cells that help us respirate and burn oxygen these are symbols that help us survive we can

13:51survive without them but to me those are partners in the wealth creation that creates the human body but if you just were filled with parasites if you've got infected with worms or a virus or bacteria that were purely parasitical you would die so any organism can only

14:07withstand a small number of parasites and when the parasitic element gets too far out of control you die so you know that again I'm talking about ethical wealth patient and the time when monopolies and that I'm not promoting capitalism I'm gonna talk about miss price externalities like the environment I'm talking about free minds and free

14:23markets small steel exchange between humans that's voluntary and doesn't have an outsize impact on others but I think that kind of wealth creation if a society does not respect it the group does not respect it that society will plunge into ruin and darkness obviously we want to be wealthy and we want to get

14:40there in this lifetime without having to rely on luck a lot of people think making money is about luck it's not it's about becoming the kind of person that makes money you know I like to think that if I lost all my money and if you drop me on a random street in any english-speaking country within five ten

14:57years I'd be wealthy again right because it's just a skill set that I've developed and I think anyone can develop you know in a thousand parallel universes you want to be wealthy in 999 of them you don't want to be wealthy the 50 of them where you got lucky so we want to factor luck out of it there's

15:13really four kinds of luck that we were talking about this came from a book P marca Marc Andreessen wrote a blog post about it but there's different kinds of luck the first kind of luck he might just say is that blind luck where I just got lucky because something completely out of my

15:28control happened you know that's fortune that's fate etc then there's luck that comes through persistence hard work soeul motion which is when you're just running around creating lots of opportunities you're generating a lot of energy you're doing a lot of things lots of things will just get stirred up in

15:44the dust it's almost like mixing a petri dish and seeing what combines or mixing a bunch of reagents and seeing what combines you're just generally in a force and hustle and energy that luck will find you a third way is that you just become very good at spotting luck